Curse

nebojats · Nov 09, 2007, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Holy mackerel. PT, you're seriously testing my patience. I hate hate resorting to the dictionary, but if you want to get technical about defining something that only exists in fantasy games (which is ludicrous), here ya go:

Chronomancer: a mage capable of manipulating time.

Mage: a person who is skilled in magic (read: no indication about identity, function, weapons, armor, etc.).

My CC: a person who is skilled in time magic.

I have made a Chronomancer. I understand you're not a fan of battlemages, but I am. They exist in other games, they can exist in Guild Wars. I don't want to hear about your completely unrelated version of a Chronomancer. I don't want to hear you reject my concept. I only want to hear you critique it. The words "senseless", "dumb", "wrong", and "childish" are not critiques... they're personal attacks. If you want to engage in conversation, do so. If you respond with yet another pointless, thoughtless, and unsubstantiated post, I will block you. I can't stand flaming trolls on forums and I will not waste my time with them. I'm here to have fun, not be dragged down in some idiotic argument with a stranger on the other side of the internet.

As to other responses, I'll get back to you later. Gotta run to class!

P.S. If I were to change the name from Chronomancer to something else, would that satisfy you? It seems like your quarrel has less to do with the function of my CC and more to do with whether or not "Chronomancer" accurately describes my concept class.

P.P.S. I never thought of a Paladin while creating this class. Even so, I think your understanding of a Paladin is just as narrow as that of the Chronomancer. According to you, a Paladin is a tank that attacks/protects with auras and attacks with a one-handed shield. Once again, using your affinity for definitions, a Paladin is defined as: "any knightly or heroic champion," or "any determined advocate or defender of a noble cause." Nowhere do I see anything about a one-handed shield, tanking, or auras.

Hells_Faithful · Nov 09, 2007, 06:05 PM // 18:05

I agree with Nebojats, it is a waste off time to squabble over your personal definition of what this or that means... He is looking for constructive critisism on his Chronomacer build... Not blatent attacks on him personal...

Shadow Longstem · Nov 09, 2007, 06:23 PM // 18:23

is it me or is this just a rip off of one ofthe classes that anet intended to make for one of the expansions? im pretty sure it is

nebojats · Nov 09, 2007, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Ouch, harsh words! GW did indeed intend at one point to make a Chronomancer (as Phoenix Tears and Clone pointed out earlier), although as far as I know, they never revealed more than concept art. It's no longer in production (Utopia got canceled) and from what I can tell from the few sketches GW put out, their version looked to have a very different sort of identity than my CC.

All I'm doing in the thread is offering a proposal for how I think the Chronomancer ought to be. I'm not intending to "rip off" GW, just as people who propose druids and paladins aren't ripping off WoW.

Nyktos · Nov 10, 2007, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Couldn't you just build adrenaline with a different weapon, then switch to the shield to attack and skip the whole "wait to be attacked first" bit?

nebojats · Nov 10, 2007, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Alright, I made a lot of changes to the class.

1) SC, you said the Chronomancer needed adrenaline-protection skills, since his shield attacks rely exclusively on adrenaline. I implemented the one you suggested, calling it "Return to Fury." I also made it so the Chronomancer can attack with his shield without adrenaline, he just does little damage (still trying to figure out how much the base damage is).

2) To Hells Faithful, I did modify the shield so it can be used offensively without adrenaline, although it deals less damage. Adrenaline is needed to do any serious damage. Otherwise, it is sort of weird to have a melee character that can't do damage unless attacked. You were definitely right on that one, haha. I also changed the shield attribute, Stamina, to decrease adrenaline costs of shield skills.

3) @SC, you said that one of the main causes of this class being bland is that it could only be a basher or a time manipulator. In order to have any sort of versatility at all, it had to max out two attributes. I reconfigured the attributes, and I think the new setup allows for a lot more variety with less investment in any attribute. You can also attack without adrenaline now, just not very effectively. What do you think about the new setup? Same question goes to anyone reading this, of course.

4) I think it was SC, although maybe it was HF, who said the Chronomancer needed protection against time manipulation so that he could get close for his auras. The primary attribute now has some skills (will have more soon, with your input hopefully

) that are designed to let the Chronomancer be unaffected by time-based spells and environmental effects.

5) On that note, SC, I expanded the auras' range from adjacent to nearby. This makes it easier for the Chronomancer to affect other players with his auras.

6) I think it was SC who said it didn't make much sense to have the primary attribute related to adrenaline, since this is a time mage. I combined the Power and Stamina attributes into one melee-focused attribute and set up the new primary to be Temporality, which improves all of the Chronologist's time-related skills. In this attribute are skills which let the Chronologist walk through time differently than others and the attribute affects all of the Chronologist's time skills' effectiveness. So it makes more sense now... the Chronologist's primary improves his ability to manipulate time.

7) @Nyktos: I hadn't thought of that, haha. A very good point. I now gave the shield the ability to attack without adrenaline so you wouldn't be tempted to weapon-switch in the middle of battle like that.

I'm still not sure how to make the skills more original. I also feel like the Chronomancer needs some way to get in melee range, although I don't want it to be teleportation (too Assassin-like). Otherwise, like SC and HF say, the Chronomancer could easily be kept at bay by keeping away from the fray with conditions, slowing, etc. Is the class still boring? I think you guys have given great suggestions, but the class is still far from complete. Here's hoping it gets better with more communal brainstorming!

Biostem · Nov 10, 2007, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Time manipulation seems a little, well, technological. It just doesn't seem like the sort of thing that wizards w/ medieval technology would ponder too much.

Creating a sort of bio-mage that simply accelerates or slows living things' functions seems more appropriate.

I could see things like "age", "restore youth", "hasten", "erode", "rust" as powers that this type of character would have. I would deemphasize direct time manipulation, and instead focus on things like aging, de-aging, etc.

I would actually have them use things like small 1-handed throwing blades in the primary hand, and hourglasses/sundials/books in the off-hand.

The attributes would be:

Pacing - (primary attribute) each rank heals you for 3 hp whenever something around you ages or de-ages, and 1 energy for every 2 ranks of Pacing. These skills would have trigger points associated w/ them - like w/e an enemy uses a spell, X happens, or w/e an ally attacks Y happens.

Prediction - This attribute deals w/ things that may happen in the (near) future - it could involve some interrupts of enemy actions, or have some reactive healing/buffing. It could also involve aging enemies to blind them, slow them, weaken them, etc.

Historical recollection - this has to do w/ restoring allies to previous (healthy) states - it wouldn't actually keep track of their past status, just give the feeling of doing so. It could also have some interesting tricks - like turn enemies into a baby-like state where they're weaker or slower, or temporarily reduce their attributes.

Rending - rending would have to do w/ displacing enemies form the natural flow of things - perhaps you freeze them for a short period of time. It could also be used to grant some protection to allies by taking them out of time for a short bit. This would also have some cool abilities, like pulling a version of yourself from a previous time for a short bit (think an AI-controlled hench that looks like you and has your skill bar, but slightly less hp/attribute points)

Phoenix Tears · Nov 10, 2007, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hells_Faithful

I agree with Nebojats, it is a waste off time to squabble over your personal definition of what this or that means... He is looking for constructive critisism on his Chronomacer build... Not blatent attacks on him personal...

I said my personal rest to Nebo per PM ...

but to you:

I'm not someone, who just posts Opinions into others Threads, only to beg then for for criticism on my versions ...
When I write my personal version of a CC profession into someone others thread, then it should maybe help to improve the basic CC .. i emphasize ..maybe

How cheap do you think of me >.>

Must here everyone cry for a big "yay for this CC we've ever waited" before opinions get accepted here or what ...

PS: like biostem now, he just posted his opinion, how a Chronomancer should look like, does he now await cause of that, that everyone starts to talk only about his version, and that nebo has to change his whole CC cause of this ? ... HELL NO!!!

PureEvilYak · Nov 10, 2007, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Wow, you thought this one out well... I find myself really wanting to play one. There are some nice skills there. I especially liked "lapse", the revert idea is pretty innovative. And of course, I'm swayed by the wiki pictures of Anets Chronomancer

, but I'll try to keep that out of my argument.

The only flaws I can see is that it isn't really that specific, especially in PvE. There seems to be no way to do any real damage (yes, I know that was in the OP), and neither does it have any form of healing. And, to be truly effective, must run about a lot. This means one thing: Bad in PvE.
It sounds really fun to play in PvP. However, to my previous points. Without damage, in PvE, you have to really give something special. I mean, I'll often take ele warder heroes, but they always have damage on the side. Ever fought 3 monks in HM? The only people I generally take without damage are monks. Which brings me to my next point, that it has no healing. Yeah, a protective character is good, but what happens when one of your team is taking heavy damage? Yeah, you can prot them, but if, with a chronomancer as support, you've left out a monk for more damage, that team member wont get the healing. One or the other is really needed, even if just as a supplement.
Finally, heroes/henchies are stupid. This would work well in a all player team, but if your running around casting your area skills, your heroes will stop attacking to follow you. Which would be incredibly irritating.

Anyway, just my thoughts. It looks like theres a lot more criticism than praise here, but I actually really love the idea. It just takes more time and effort to show hate than to show love

nebojats · Nov 14, 2007, 10:23 PM // 22:23

I've added a lot of new skills, put in a Tactics section to explain how the CC works in battle, and made a few minor touch ups here and there. Right now, as far as I can tell, the biggest problem with this class is that it needs to be close to be effective. Anyone have a good idea for how that can happen? In other words, what strategy should the Chronomancer use to assure he's able to get next to large groups of people?

@Biostem: I definitely like the idea of some sort of biomage that speeds up and slows down aging, rusting, etc. I think some of my new skills cover that role. If you have any other suggestions, please write them down.

I don't really feel like time manipulation is technological though. I mean, in my mind, controlling time is like controlling life, death, the elements, the spiritual plane, the mind, etc. It's just another sort of magical sphere. Maybe you could explain what you mean?

@PureEvilYak: Thanks! A compliment... that must mean the brainstorming process is coming along. I made a lot of updates to the OP. I added a section on tactics which might help to clarify the Chronomancer's specific roles. As for lack of damage-dealing, check out the Tactics section... the Pariah tactic shows how the Chronomancer can deal some serious damage. It's true the CC has little healing (although Lapse and Revert could be used to heal people really effectively if done right). Does that address your critiques? I feel like I might be missing out on something... Anyway, thanks for the response!

nechronius · Nov 14, 2007, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by nebojats

I don't really feel like time manipulation is technological though. I mean, in my mind, controlling time is like controlling life, death, the elements, the spiritual plane, the mind, etc. It's just another sort of magical sphere. Maybe you could explain what you mean?

I have to agree that the "flavor" doesn't seem right for a fantasy medieval setting either since the concept of temporal manipulation is generally perceived to be "futuretech" and not "medieval magic."

Not that we can't cite examples of playing with Time in the past. Army of Darkness jumps to mind ("Did you say the exact words?" - love it! ). However as a way to express/define your character class with a single word I suppose it's a reasonable fit though not entirely apropos.

I suppose a true Time-stopping mechanic would be out of the question, especially in PvP, but I do like the use of speed-up/slowdown AoE auras to simulate localized temporal shifts. It will definitely encourage people to spread out.

However most of the abilities can be expressed in terms of hexing/cursing or blessing/chanting which falls more or less on other character classes. Which just goes to show that it's difficult to come up with a truly unique class that doesn't heavily overlap others in terms of flavor, which makes me really wonder what sort of classes will be in Guild Wars 2...

Hmm... just noticed two prior threads using the exact same character class name. Will have to glance at those since temporal manipulation happens to be something I enjoy in my games.

[M]agna_[C]arta · Nov 15, 2007, 08:53 AM // 08:53

The Game isn't Entirely based on Fantasy Medievel Setting

Seraphim of Chaos · Nov 15, 2007, 09:25 PM // 21:25

It's too powerful.

System_Crush · Nov 16, 2007, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seraphim of Chaos

It's too powerful.

He hasn't mentioned cost-activation and recharges, nor the damage or speed of the shield.
Basically you can imagine anything in those places, so the point of how powerful it is is really more one with your definition of the skills, than of how powerful they might or might not be.

Though I agree that that some of the timewarps that redo or undo spells might be a bit powerful.
Imagine using "Time Loop" on an enemy using [skill=text]Infuse Health[/skill].

[M]agna_[C]arta · Dec 03, 2007, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Nebo want me to put this in the list^^?

Leslie · Dec 24, 2007, 09:07 PM // 21:07

I personally envisioned this as being a 60AL caster, along the lines of a mesmer dealing chaos damage but more of it without the if certain conditions are met and the interrupts and the energy loss and such of a mesmer. Just pure chaos damage with a side of support; kind of like a necromancer with his dark damage, I suppose. It'd be nice if they were able to finish off adding the chronomancer they started work on as some sort of mini-ingame store expansion thing. I like the idea of your time auras and such, but not the two hand shield; I bet the hourglass staff would look so good on this class. I find the skill you had which reduced hexes, conditions and enchantments on the target was very unique.

[M]agna_[C]arta · Dec 25, 2007, 01:17 AM // 01:17

The Chronomancer is a Tank, which weilds 2 handed Shields.
And manipulates Foes around Him, and buff Allies around him too.

System_Crush · Dec 26, 2007, 06:56 PM // 18:56

I have too much free time and noticed some numbers.

How come Nebo's CC's have almost 3 times the views of anyone else that posted their CC around the same time?
They don't necessarily get more replies, but this one for example has 8XX views against the 3XX views of other CC's posted around the same month.

I feel lacking in charisma...

nebojats · Dec 29, 2007, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Thanks for the feedback, people. I've sort of been busy with other things, so it's been a while since I checked out the forums.

As far as the general concept not fitting into GW, I suppose there could be some truth to that. Usually, my CCs start off with me trying to jam as much innovative stuff into them as possible and then over time I tame them down. In this case, I really like the idea of a time mage and I also love the idea of a massive, offensive shield-wielding class. I also like the idea of a battlemage (magic user dealing serious weapon damage in melee). It could be too much for one class, though. I'll have to mull it over and maybe churn out some new CCs inspired by the successful parts of the Chronomancer or just seriously revamp this class.

SC, as always, thanks for pointing out the obvious. No concept is inherently too powerful (although it can be ill-conceived), since you can simply change the intensity of effects or increase the costs. As far as time loop goes, what about making it elite and costing all your energy and causing exhaustion? Then is it too powerful? If not, then how about you lose 99.999999% of your health? etc, etc, etc.

MC, if you want to put this CC up on your list, that'd be awesome.

About the tons of views, I don't know. Maybe people like the layout or my beautiful prose(...) or the images (even though this one doesn't have concept art yet). Maybe everyone looks at them and just steals the ideas without replying! Or maybe it's because I compulsively check my posts for a few weeks, racking up the number of views, haha. That is funny, though... I'd never noticed how many more views my CCs ad. Don't worry SC... you're charismatic, man! And you're definitely one of smartest dudes on the forums. I'll check out your afflicitionist when I get the chance.

Peace!

P.S. Anyone have some good ideas for the CC?

[M]agna_[C]arta · Dec 29, 2007, 07:36 AM // 07:36

I envy you, While I get 250+ Viewers you got s thousand^^.
How do you do it^^?

No Suggestions, It's perfect anyway what to Improve^^.
Except that you still have no Concept Art for this CC^^.

Happy New Year Guys, and Merry Christmas^^!

P.S.
-Please comment too in my CCs^^.
And be online in the forum as much as possible.
Last Week there was no topic to talk bout.
And were losing members^^.

Edited:
-And Please Keep Not, to Register your Chronomancer in the List.
For me to Put Up the Chronomancer^^.